Prophets, Popularity, Prima Donnas, Praise and Profits
Written by Neil Sanders
Produced By Brent Lee
For Some Dare Call It Conspiracy
When I was informed that the two titans of tall tales, Alex Jones and David Icke were to meet and debate, I was immediately reminded of the scintillating back and forth between Gore Vidal and William Buckley – in as much as I wished I was watching that instead.
Actually it gave rather a few insights into the egos, the need for attention, the hypocrisies, the lies and the lack of principles found in the conspiracy crowd.
Recently David has discovered a new, if petulant, way of getting attention. He slags off his rivals and former colleagues. He is particularly angered that people seem to have taken a shine to the pouting, spoiled, faux intellectual, man-child Elon Musk. Icke doesn't like him for...reasons, mostly to be contrary to the Alt-right crowd but partly due to his Neuralink brain implants. Despite their application being to help people who have lost the use of their legs, Icke is suspicious of anything new. This is mainly because if people don't understand something they can be scared with it and David can spin it into the narrative of his world-view, the main aspect of which is that David was right (about anything and everything) and anyone who mocked him in the 1990s is woefully wrong. David says it is due to concerns about these chips being part of a mind control programme – and even if they definitely aren’t for that, they bloody well might be, which is near enough.
To be fair David is kind of right. Elon Musk is a billionaire elite that messes around with NASA or something maybe and likes computers which are part of the control grid. He really should be an enemy of the truth movement if they stick to their admittedly loose principles. I would hate to speculate but I’m going to anyway, I suspect the reason he has been embraced by the conspiracy crowd is due to Elon’s edge lord midlife crisis, please come back to me Amber Heard, spiral of sadness that included racism, antisemitism, anti trans, anti woke, and anti immigrant sentiment (from the South African living in the USA). Tragically this appealed to David and Alex’s audience.
Elon is of course the owner of car company Tesla and some have wondered if he had based himself, somewhat, on the famed business mogul Henry Ford. Sadly not in his car design or business acumen, but more in regard to his prejudices and extremely questionable politics. In more recent times Musk has backed off on the blatant antisemitism in a totally sincere change of heart that has absolutely nothing to do with his failing platform, rotting image and increasingly less well off and incandescent shareholders. Elon seems more concerned with cultivating a pathetic frat boy, 4chan, own the libs persona rather than tend to his many failing businesses. He’s like a middle aged man who has abandoned his family, bought a Harley Davidson and spends all day revving the engine outside the local comprehensive school to try and impress the hard lads in year four.
If I am honest though, I suspect Icke actually wants Musk’s attention and patronage. Musk is credulous and rich and Icke can talk an amazing amount of bullshit. Icke may claim to hate Musk, but I'm sure he would find a way to tolerate his audience, grudgingly accept their praise, reluctantly acknowledge their lyonization and disdainfully take their money. Alex has fully embraced this potential revenue stream because, hey he's got bills to pay. $1.5 billion worth of bills that he owes to the parents of the children who were murdered at Sandy Hook. So principles schminchiples.
David, feeling that he isn’t quite the main attraction any more, has been goading Alex Jones (and anyone popular) into interviewing him for weeks. Jones, realising that this might draw him an audience to sell his snake oil medicine to, responded to this tantrum by graciously inviting Icke onto his show. Jones had possibly realised that a percentage of this audience believe in space lizards, and therefore might not be the most cynical minded. In turn he might just be able to persuade some of them to purchase his shady pills.
The dynamic is interesting – I suspect neither of these men like each other, they are both self obsessed and attention craving and they are essentially rivals– but circumstance has thrown them together and they are just going to have to get on with it. It is not dissimilar to the plot of the film Tango and Cash – or when two straight porn stars that have discovered the lucrative nature of the homosexual side of the industry finally meet on set.
This squalid and undignified ecosystem of fevered egos is much like two praying mantises hooking up on grindr – The fact that they are using each other goes unspoken, each is there for their own selfish needs but there is an underlying tension, with both parties acutely aware of the others need for dominance which may result in having your face suddenly eaten off mid coitus. Figuratively speaking of course – unless Alex is particularly drunk, in which case all bets are off.
Neither of these men are in their prime, career or life wise. Both are acutely aware that a new crop of far right tossers have somewhat stolen their thunder. Alex has embraced this and tried to get along with this new crowd to varying degrees of success. David has basically said that everybody but him is a massive twat that has no clue about what is really going on. It’s a bold stratagem. We can only wait and see how it plays out.
Ironically the news that these two were meeting was only temporarily the biggest thing on the internet. At the same time it was announced that two even bigger shits would be circle jerking each other off disguised as journalism, in an even more distasteful and obvious attention and revenue farming exercise. Tucker Carlson, the man with the face of perpetual bewilderment had secured an interview with dictator, war criminal and hero to incels everywhere, Vladimir Putin. Decent journalists end up dead in Russia, usually via the window of a high rise building. So I am sad to say that it is absolutely certain that Tucker will emerge completely unscathed from this interview. Many journalists have approached Putin for interviews. John Sweeney when he “doorstepped” Putin with a question was punched in the stomach by one of his hired thugs. One wonders quite why the “Butcher of Grozny” was so willing to have a tete a tete with veteran of government propaganda, whore for Fox news and latterly “the preppy face of white supremacy” Tucker Carlson. Who can say? It seems obvious that Tucker will literally do anything to keep his tragic brand relevant. He has gone all Lord Haw Haw. That probably should be pronounced Lord Whore Whore.
Jones realised this and desperately started trying to ride Tucker's coat tails. Icke stuck to his guns and simply raged at everyone and everything on twitter, telling them that covid was fake and that he was some sort of saurologist Nostradamus. He and his acolytes amused themselves by continuously posting videos from the 90s in which he makes a number of predictions, namely a world central bank, world government, world currency and world army, oh and a fully compliant population controlled by implanted microchips - none of which have come true.
Jones was recently interviewed on Tucker's twitter show, a show Carlson started after being fired from Fox news for costing them hundreds of millions with his lies about voting machines. Getting kicked out of Fox News for lying is a bit like getting kicked out of a ballet contest for doing a plie. Fox News is a cesspit, and the fact that Tucker is too toxic for even them speaks volumes. Since his departure from the Murdoch propaganda network, Carlson has set up his own disinformation program where he can gleefully rattle off fascist and racist talking points safe in the knowledge that sissyspacex, space Karen, he of the numerous shit leather jackets, Elon Musk gets all excited for edge lord, white supremacist content like a thirteen year old who has discovered his older brothers Derek and Clive CDs. Previously Tucker has interviewed known liar, fraudster and sexual assault fan Donald Trump, suspected and probable liar Larry Sinclair, who claims to have had crack fuelled sex with Barrack Obama and known liar Alex Jones. Carlson was never respected but at least used to have the appearance of legitimacy. Now Carlson is just one of the pantheon of paid liars that rile up the ignorant with lies designed to terrify and titillate at the same time, that seem to occupy twitter in the same way a tapeworm might occupy someone's bowels. He has less integrity than Burke and Hare. That’s where twitter is at the moment, it's an arms race for who can garner the most hate filled followers, a puerile, populist, popularity contest, with the occasional porn bot thrown in.
So before it even began, this meeting of mangled minds was already upstaged. However, at separate times both Icke and Jones have claimed to have an intimate relationship with none other than God, both claiming to be prophets sent on a mission of truth by the deity himself, so perhaps they can call in a favour and have him drop in for a cameo, provide an appraisal of their respective missions or at the very least do some insignificant miracles.
As it transpired the Tucker/Putin interview turned out to be rather a damp squib. It was certainly watched a lot, but it failed to destroy the matrix or own the libs. In fact it was actually fucking boring. I mean say what you like about Hitler but at least he could hold your attention. The interview was the predictable lies and propaganda from Putin, with Tucker oscillating from his usual look of befuddlement to one of palpable boredom, only occasionally punctuated with sycophantic laughs that reminded me of the character Ellis from Die Hard. Sadly there was no Hans Gruber pistol combination to make this end.
On the day of the interview David spent his time promoting the event as huge and life changing. Alex spent the day kissing Vladimir Putin’s arse, repeating his propaganda points and trying to associate himself with Tucker Carlson. He advertised the interview by saying – he would be talking to disgraced ex-lobbyist and Nixon fan, Roger Stone, adding that afterwards he would have a friendly chat with David about Elon Musk.
David is increasingly reminiscent of the titular character played by Bette Davis in Whatever Happened To Baby Jane. As his relevance fades, his bitterness and resentment at being sidelined has grown and grown. One can imagine him dancing and twirling on the beaches of the Isle of Wight, lost in remembrance of past glories.
This world changing event was supposed to begin at 6 on the dot. Five past comes and goes and Alex is still blathering on with Roger Stone. At about ten past the hour Alex segues into the David Icke debate and immediately begins throwing subtle shade David's way. Firstly Alex says, “I've been wanting to get him on for months and we’ve got him” This basically says to the audience, David has been whining on the internet for no good reason – which is a rare moment of honesty from Infowars. Jones Continues, “Best selling author, former top BBC broadcaster, former head of the Green Party” Now to most people these would simply be impressive and interesting sounding entries to a CV – but to those who have eyes to see this is actually an insult. The BBC and the Green agenda are two of the arch enemies of the truth movement. Connection to these organisations would be seen as a very negative thing and arouse suspicion. Its like introducing a new primary school teacher by including the fact that he was a former roadie for Gary Glitter.
Jones continues “but he’s better known for the last 35 years since he got thunderstruck with a vision of the coming new world order. I really respect him, I know he’s a great guy, David Icke.” Jones rambles about how David gives a different perspective to Elon Musk, who Jones says is definitely fighting against the New World Order alongside them to help accelerate the great awakening of the masses, which is fanciful at best. Jones says that he’s annoyed that Icke has labelled him a minion of Musk. Icke hasn’t said this exactly but he has accused Alex of pandering to Elon Musk, which is true, there is a whole swathe of sycophantic parasites who are kissing Musk's arse in an attempt to curry favour and grow their brand. For no good reason Alex then brags that “Joe Rogan says Alex Jones is right about everything” and explains how he turned down a $10 million a year contract from Roger Ailes of Fox News, to be the “New Rush Limbaugh''. Alex then says twitter is a good tool but he’s “Not going to put on knee pads and give Elon Musk a blowjob” He says that, but Jones does owe an awful lot of money to the parents of Sandy Hook, so let's wait and see. Also why did his mind go directly to the need for knee pads? That sounds like the voice of experience learned through hard lessons talking there.
The screen reveals a silent and clearly furious Icke. He has the look of a man who has complained to the waiter that his spoon is dirty only for the waiter to respond by rubbing his genitals through his mashed potatoes.
So the scene is set and it's already a battle of tetchy egos. David resplendent with his flowing silver hockey hair and the countenance of a mistrustful bird of prey, Alex looking increasingly like Krang from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. This is a shame because, and this is a hill that I am totally prepared to die on, Alex Jones aged about 18 was an absolute Baldwin. But being beautiful does not make a person good and Alex was by all accounts a total shit. He has often told the story of how he had to escape to Austin after having exposed the local police force as drug dealers alongside the fact that sexy illuminati women were literally throwing themselves at him 24/7, trying to persuade him to join their satanic cult. The truth is that Jones was a bully who kids got sick of. The final straw was when he sucker punched a boy in his year who he was jealous of. Jones fancied the lads girlfriend and rather than take the “plenty more fish in the sea” attitude punched the boy in the back of the head knocking him out. Jones was later invited to a party where most of that school year fell on him and gave him a fucking good kicking, nearly beating him to death.
There is no true beauty without decay and Jones' current appearance very much speaks to that. Alex says to Icke that he is a little hurt at his comments but he respects David and thinks of him as a friend. David seething and icy does not appear to reciprocate such a sentiment.
David starts his speech with a huge frustrated inhalation of breath, like a mechanic who is about to tell you an entire new engine is needed and says “right” in a tone of pure British annoyance.
“I’m not saying don’t use twitter. I use it” says Icke somewhat dodging Alex’s concerns and implying that if he does something then it's perfectly OK. “There has become a mainstream alternative media which dominates the airwaves.” I mean he is right, but it does appear that his main gripe is not the content of their information as much as the fact that they get a larger audience. David then tells a pointless self aggrandising lie, “When I started there was no alternative media, I watched it emerge”. This is nonsense, there was Mae Brussell, Gary Allen who influenced Alex, G Edward Griffin, William Cooper, Rabbi Antlemann (Who David has cribbed content from), Jordan Maxwell (Who both Alex and David have cribbed content from) Anthony Hilder (who both of them have cribbed from) Myron Fagan (who both of them have cribbed from) Madam Blavatsky, Manly P Hall, Alice Bailey (who Icke cribbed from) and Nesta Webster (who they have both cribbed from). Though to be fair few of them are on twitter, hampered by the fact that they are dead.
David launches into a tirade about how the alt media is obsessed with the battle between left wing and right wing politics, in a non too subtle dig at Alex who has in recent years been heavily pro Trump, critical of the left and supportive of numerous right wing figures. David himself has also taken this position, but recently he slagged off Trump so I assume he hopes people will forget his anti-trans, anti immigration and anti-woke sentiment, holocaust denial and pro Brexit viewpoints.
Alex isn’t playing this game and so butters Icke up, “It's a false dialectic that you pioneered exposing”. Icke looks shocked at the compliment and stumbles his words before explaining that above the left and right is “The Cult” – not the band who did She sells sanctuary – predictably I’m afraid its jews.
Speaking of the band The Cult, this highlights another hypocritical aspect of the conspiracy crowd, selective significance and a willingness to simply ignore facts if they don’t fit. The guitarist of the band The Cult is in a relationship with former glamour model and conspiracy enthusiast Leilani Dowding. She has, in her own way, done huge amounts over the years to combat the stereotype of the dumb blonde. Previously she was one of the faces of David’s Ickonic pay per view network, she appeared on the promotional material and was touted as one of their main presenters. She then jumped ship and went to work for Mark Steyn, who had been kicked off GB news for getting them into hot water with Ofcom. She is also bessie mates with Laurence Fox’s girlfriend who seems to be a rather unpleasant person and evidently isn’t the best judge of character. Recently Mark Steyn has been fined $1million for defaming the climate scientist Michael Mann. Anyway, the point is that in the conspiracy world there is a truism that all bands must have sold their soul or at least compromised their integrity to the illuminati to succeed. Satanic or free masonic imagery is apparently hidden in the artwork of such artists as a sign of their unholy allegiances. The band the Cult – who used to be called Death Cult has artwork filled with imagery such as Egyptian winged circles (sometimes seen as representations of historical UFOs), black goats, snakes, wolves, crossed bones, a horned circle symbol that looks a bit like a devil. They also have an album called Beyond Good and Evil which is a reference to Nietzsche, not to mention the rather obvious fact that they are called “The Cult”. Normally these would all be glaring red flags for the conspiracy crowd. The fact that the band had been popular for decades would also be a solid gold piece of evidence that they must be part of the system and therefore have very probably sacrificed more animals than Colonel Sanders. But no – for whatever reason they chose to ignore this. Also overlooked is her glamour model past. Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with it at all. There’s nothing to criticise. Sex work is work and if she feels happy or empowered doing modelling then more power to her. However it does somewhat jibe with Icke’s totally sincere and in no way reactionary concerns about the illuminati using a plethora of devious tactics such as sex, promiscuity (oh and men dressed as flamboyant ladies reading stories to children to send them irreparably gay) in order to destroy the family unit for reasons that aren’t entirely clear.
The best example of this hypocrisy and willingness to abandon the main principles of the concept of the NWO is the conspiracy crowds embrace of Donald Trump as a rebel and anti-establishment. He’s propped up by the Heritage Foundation, he had to audition in front of them to get the presidential nomination in the first place. But he did say that he hated Hillary Clinton (despite being a former friend and them being related to one another) and he did mention the “deep state” (despite being backed by oil industry think tanks and the Kochs) and he says racist things to own the libs – so they decided the known liar and billionaire was in fact one of their own. Trump is such an arsehole that my only hope is that his abhorrent behaviour will one day be explained as a necessary cover for his true identity, Batman. Think about it. Trump has the resources to secretly fight crime and on the surface is such a selfish and useless waste of skin that he is the absolute last person you would expect to be batman. We can but hope.
David himself is also guilty of selective outrage. For years he has stated two things. One that anyone who works for the BBC is part of the establishment and in on the plot and probably some type of satanic bastard. And two that it was always an open secret at the BBC that DJ and presenter Jimmy Savile was abusing kids by the dozen. Firstly Icke himself worked for the BBC for many years and Savile was working there at the time. Icke likes to pretend that he outed Savile or was one of the first to raise the alarm. But he didn’t. Not once. Never. Until Savile was dead and the msm started to talk about it and bring victims forth. Johnny Rotten of the Sex Pistols had voiced concerns years ago. Jerry Sadowitz, Stewart Lee and Richard Herring had joked about his proclivities. But nothing from Icke. So either (by his own logic) he was part of the cover up or the knowledge was not quite as widespread as he would have us believe.
David says “When you go deeper into the rabbit hole, into the web…” which makes me wonder what kind of a hellish surrealist nightmare the Isle of Wight countryside must be with these terrifying and ungodly spider rabbits roaming about the place.
David finishes his rant about how everyone but him is stupid for promoting strictly right wing talking points before offering up two talking points that couldn’t be more far right if you dressed them in KKK robes and gave them a job on GB news. Firstly he says that Putin was forced to invade Ukraine due to NATO expansion, which is an untrue right wing trope and then by saying “They (which probably means Jews) are dismantling western culture with illegal immigration, which is also an untrue trope of the far right.
Alex trying to play nice offers, “Elon hates the open border” to which David snaps “Yeah words are easy”
David then states that it is “useful to the cult (again not the band) for people to see Putin as a hero”. He then hedges his bets and says that actually he likes quite a lot of what Putin says. This may or may not be true – he is simply trying not to alienate the audience who he realises do like Putin.
David is cross with Putin because of his praise of China. China, as David points out, is apparently the blueprint for the NWO and their society is a heavily censored, government controlled “digital prison” David and Alex both seem ignorant of similar if not worse infringements of human rights and the media that happen daily in Russia.
So just to clarify, David's gripe with Putin is not the war crimes, not the annexing of other countries, not the kidnapping of children en masse, not the corruption or censorship and murder of political rivals and journalists – no. none of that. It's the fact that they want favourable trade relations with China.
“Putin praised Elon” tries Alex. David looks nonplussed.
Alex is clearly getting annoyed so he has a dig at David pointing out that he has made plenty of derogatory comments about Jones recently, which are uncalled for. David refuses to offer even the slightest hint of contrition and says “It's not about you mate, or about me, it’s about what’s happening to the world.” But it very obviously is about him and how he feels slighted at not getting the recognition that he feels he deserves and about him being usurped by new faces. Alex looks wide eyed and simultaneously incredulous and insensed, as if someone had just spilled his drink over his wife who they also called fat – he throws his pen and makes the universally recognised hand gesture for “what the fuck?”
David delivers his main concern, Artificial intelligence and the cloud. He worries that humans will connect to AI via the cloud, it will do our thinking for us and that Elon’s support of this via satellite networks etc built by his companies, not to mention that neuralink chips go in the brain, is proof that he is in on the evil plot. For no reason at all Icke then announces that anyone who had the covid vaccine already has nanotech inside them that will connect to the cloud, although he stubbornly refuses to explain how I could use this to download films and music.
Alex lightly scolds David for just ranting and not trying to have a conversation. This is because David doesn’t do conversations, he will scan what you say for a word he recognises and use that as a jumping off point for a pre prepared diatribe about a subject that he wants to talk about, be it relevant or not. He is very much like an improvisational comedian, similar to Sandy Toxvig. Only shit and painfully not funny, similar to Sandy Toxvig.
“Look” says Alex, “You are great at lecturing, you have had about 80% of the time. Now we are friends.” David, who looks like he has just caught Alex wiping dog shit on his new hall carpet, takes a long inhale of breath and grabs his knee to prevent him from making a fist. “I’m not trying to be mean” says Alex. “I don’t care mate” says a perceivably fuming Icke. “We are friends, I like you. Do you like me?” asks Jones. “Just go ahead” replies David through gritted teeth. “Do you think I’m an agent of the NWO?” questions Alex. “You don’t have to be a knowing agent of the cult…” begins David before a visibly hurt Alex interrupts, “I’m a useful idiot?”. “Well” states David, “If you have a certain mentality and focus on left right politics to get the promotion, you don’t need to be a part of it.” Alex throws his pen again in frustration and it goes bouncing off his desk. If I am honest I don’t think either of them are useful. “I invented the phrase left/right paradigm” lies Alex. The phrase was actually in use in the 19th century.
“If you connect to AI, it becomes your mind” states Icke, missing the point that most people's opinions already come from strangers on the internet via their phone, filtered through whatever world-view they happen to hold. “And the WEF wants autonomous vehicles- where the computer decides where you want to go” warns David. This isn’t entirely accurate. The cars don’t dictate the destination, they just drive. I mean what does he really think is going to happen? It isn’t HAL from 2001 A Space Odyssey. "Take me to the shops please car”. “I’m sorry David. I can’t do that I’m afraid. Daisy, Daisy give me your answer do...”
Alex perceptibly gives in and sighs with exasperation, “OK, Let's say you are right, what is the plan for Elon?” David ignores him and goes into a pre-prepared rant about how far right Dutch politician Eva Vlaadingerbroek used to be suspicious of Elon Musk but is now a fan of his. Alex interjects, “Look I'm not mainstream alternative media, lets get that straight.” He then suggests, “Well if they set up Musk as a fake saviour then we must be winning?”. This is nonsensical, the point is to say to David, yeah I’d already thought of that and I've taken it a step further. It's cock waving in its most basic form. David looks irate.
Alex starts to talk about how he gets screamed at in the street much less now than at certain times in his life. He interprets this as a sign that “people are waking up”. David says “When I first started you couldn’t fill a phone booth”. Now he's talking about his audiences, saying he has been in the game for a long time, however Alex clearly thinks David is saying that he is far more popular than him. Jones hackles rise and he says in a slow measured tone that indicates he is approaching the end of his tether, “I said you are saying there is an awakening so Musk is bought in to co opt us” which is exactly what David has been saying. “Oh then I misunderstood you” says Icke. Alex throws his pen again, leans back in his chair and looks infuriated. David then repeats the same talking point as if he wasn’t listening to Alex, which he wasn’t, Alex implores, “That's what I just said David” David fixes a withering stare and says “stop making this personal Alex” Jones looks like he wants to climb into the video screen and throttle Icke.
Icke explains that previously twitter was run by the deep state. He says that the so-called twitter files prove this, which they absolutely do not. He then questions why the deep state would sell twitter to Elon, which they absolutely did not. He then raves about, “Since covid people are coming in and are being promoted as the people we need to listen to and they get massive audiences and are given interviews with Tucker Carlson. What about the people who were calling it out in 2020” he whines, clearly referring to himself.
“I bet that Tucker would interview you” says Alex and Ickes eyes perceptibly light up, there is even a hint of a smile. But David is on a roll “Where’s the people that called it out at the time? Where is their promotion? The ones who could see it at the time because of the research they had done before.” This all smacks of jealousy and narcissism. As if to prove my suspicions true Icke, realising that he might actually get to go on Tucker Carlson’s show explains that actually he thinks Tucker is a great guy.
David has touched on something important here, but only by accident. This is a major flaw within conspiracy circles and it involves them doing research. David is presenting it as a favourable attribute of the savvy observer. However, it isn’t. When you are doing an investigation it is vital not to colour the narrative. This means bringing your preconceived ideas to the forefront before you have even seen the evidence and therefore prejudicing the outcome with your expectations. If you arrive at a crime scene already convinced of who is guilty then you view the evidence through that lens and you will more than likely miss actual evidence as you seek to prove your premise. The conspiracy crowd do this all the time. We know that 911 was an inside job, hence any and all so-called terror attacks must also be an inside job. Two points, you don’t actually know it was an inside job, you suspect it was and even if it was so what? That doesn’t mean that any future events will directly match past events. The conspiracy crowd is full of these truisms concerning international bankers, terror attacks and political assassinations. The problem is that just because they are accepted as truisms does not mean they are true, nor are your interpretations of other world events based on these truisms. So although Icke means that doing research will give you perspective on the reality of the world it is far more likely to just instil biases and a world view based on ideas that are not even close to being correct.
Alex tries to give David the floor before the break to talk without interruption but David isn’t listening and continues his diatribe about AI. Alex looks like he wants to kill David and does the finger pyramid of contemplation in an attempt to calm himself and prevent him from putting his fist through the desk. David says that AI will create unthinking hive minds that just go along with what they have been told, overlooking the glaring irony that this perfectly describes his cult leader like relationship he has with his followers and fans, apart from the ones who died from covid because he told them it didn’t exist.
Alex tries again to give David the floor for the remaining few minutes, David is still ignoring him so he tries to find common ground, “So Elon is good cop and Gates and Schwab are the bad cops?” Icke ignores him again so Alex holds up pages of what look like tweets. “I’m not going to be an asshole and read these things you have said about me” David interjects that Elon Musk is a front man for the cult and a great salesman but I have to say I don’t think his shareholders would agree with this sentiment.
Alex gives David the floor for the final ten minutes and he starts on a speech about how Elon is generally bad and a frontman for the cult that secretly rules the world. After two minutes David runs out of steam and there is an embarrassing silence for about 30 seconds, “Where’s Alex?” asks David. Alex is away from his desk for some reason and a clearly annoyed Icke is told to keep going by the producer, he repeats the thing about left and right both being controlled by the cult a few times until thankfully Alex returns.
Alex re appears on the screen. It is unclear if he nipped for a drink or a line or just had to go and punch some walls but he offers up “I've been invited to the Global Government Summit.” “They are trying to co opt you” says an unimpressed and dismissive Icke.
David then claims, “The alt media questions everything and they don’t eulogise anybody and it doesn’t think of anyone as a God.” They definitely do not do the former because of the fact that they absolutely do do the latter. People look to icons of the scene such as David and Alex for guidance. Some even live their lives in accordance to their teachings. That’s why it’s so important for them to be humble and accurate in what they say. But they both self aggrandise and express bitterness at not getting a fair amount of praise like a mix of Caligula, Morrissey and Mariah Carey. As for accuracy – they have a tendency to be like pissed storm troopers. From Star Wars not the Nazi kind...well actually.. never mind.
There is a special class of super fan of Alex and David that truly buy their bullshit unquestioningly. This is an elite group, their absolute biggest fans who never point out prior inaccuracies, ignore contradictions in the message, disregard predictions that have not come to pass and shower praise and affection on the pair regardless. These are the absolutely sold, those completely hypnotised with the image and in no doubt of the pair's position in history, who buy into the ideology and information presented to a sometimes dangerous degree. A small mercy is that it is they themselves that happen to be their biggest fans. Alex and David, like jazz musicians and James Corden are far greater fans of themselves than even their most committed audience.
After the break Alex tells David off again for lecturing, David is having none of it and starts to talk about how the world is really a simulation, a hologram, reality as we know it isn’t real. Now this isn’t a new concept and despite what David might have you believe he most certainly did not come up with the idea “A lot of stuff that I got ridiculed for, now science is catching up”. Academia has been talking about this for decades with eminent people such as Nick Bostrom, Frank Wilczek and Melvin Vopson discussing the theory in serious terms. The concept has been explored thoroughly in science fiction, even Red Dwarf the UK sitcom had a plot about “Better than life” the video game that people thought was real life. The concept goes back to Plato’s cave. The story is that people lived in this deep cave and came to believe the shadows cast on the back wall were reality. When they were taken out of the cave and shown the enormity of the real world they found it too much to cope with. Descartes also explored such themes. How can we know that we are real, we can’t, however “We think therefore we are” – basically it appears that it's real and we can’t do anything about it anyway so just get on with it. Icke didn’t get his knowledge of the subject from such lofty sources. He nicked it from the plot of the Matrix. He also thinks that Monsters Inc is an accurate representation of how reptiles from other dimensions feed off our fear. He then talks about how the human eye can only see a tiny fraction of the electromagnetic spectrum. His theory is that the light we can’t see must be teeming with reptilian aliens. “We think the world is solid, but it isn’t,'' says David. Now I don’t want to be ignorant or dismissive but who the hell cares? Lets say it is a simulation, so what? You can’t game or manipulate the simulation, you can’t alter it. You can’t fly and bend the rules of nature, if you jump off a tall building you will still burst when you hit the floor and you still have bills to pay. Realistically how does this knowledge affect me or alter my day in anyway?
Also I hate to split hairs but I thought we were already in a simulation? Why do we need to hook up to AI in this reality in order to be fully controlled? Couldn’t the people who are running the simulation (the lizards I presume) just code our obedience into the simulation? Why not program it at that level rather than convince us to move to AI in a world that isn’t even real? Isn’t that an unnecessary complication? Couldn’t the simulation make us think however it wanted us to, without the need for AI – which doesn’t really exist, because nothing really exists, because this is a simulation?
Alex starts to say that he loves David, realise that he is about to say it and that his audience is wildly homophobic, so backtracks, “David I lo.. I really like you.” he does this at least twice. But he is obviously getting bored with David, who to be honest has been pretty rude. “We have heard all this from you a hundred times, which book of yours should people buy?” Here Alex has accidentally hit the nail on the head, David churns out the same arguments, rewrites the same book periodically and has the same talking points that he has had for years, he refuses to move on, which is possibly why he isn’t quite the draw that he used to be. This is sad in a way, because David has built a reputation that simply can’t be taken away from him. If we use a music analogy, he is Led Zeppelin. Sure he isn’t charting at the moment and kids would rather go and watch Billie Eilish or some such shit, but he is still Led Zeppelin, he will always be Led Zeppelin. Its a shame that he can’t just accept and enjoy that.
David then reveals that he is still writing a new book which is why he turned down an offer to come onto Infowars in January. This obviously raises the question, if you were invited on to the show and turned it down why have you spent recent times insulting Alex and claiming to be ignored by him?
Then Alex decides to listen to callers who are part of the space watching live on twitter and something very interesting happens. Someone comes on the line who sounds rather a lot like Elon Musk. Alex thinks it is Elon Musk, Infowars think it is Elon Musk, they tell David that it is Elon Musk. The only problem is that the caller isn’t Elon Musk. But how the pair act, thinking they do have the attention of the billionaire businessman is very telling.
I have to admit that when listening, I too thought it was Elon. He has a similar sounding voice and accent, he uses phrases that Elon uses and talks about the things that Elon talks about. If you go on his twitter page, the name says Adrian but it is full of praise for Elon, praise for his various businesses and promotion of anything and everything Musk related. Knowing what a sad, fragile character Elon Musk is I initially thought that this fanboy twitter page was proof that this guy must be Elon. He is exactly the sort that, if he did set up a fake account, would not be able to help himself and would pour praise over everything he did. But Adrian has been in twitter spaces with the real Elon before, where the similarity in voice has been spoken about. Adrian denies being Elon at least twice but Jones and David are convinced he is the Tesla mogul. I reiterate, it isn’t Elon but Jones believes it is and starts sucking up to him immediately.
Adrian, who isn’t Elon starts by explaining to David that the hive mind he fears is already here. Because we all have smart phones connected to the internet we are already connected to AI so to speak. He is right of course, people get their opinions from sources on the internet, often not based on what is true but on what they would like to be true. Alex is beaming and asks hopefully, “Is this Elon Musk? It sounds like Elon?” Adrian denies this emphatically, “No I’m just weird” he says.
Adrian then drops a bombshell. He says that people have only really been talking about simulation theory since the Matrix film came out and further more that most people who subscribe to this theory due to the film haven’t really understood the films premise. Both of these things are absolutely correct. He explains that the twist in the Matrix is that there is no reality. Even when they supposedly break out of the Matrix so they can live in unattractive grey flannel clothes in caves underground, they are still in the Matrix, just another level of it. That’s why Neo is able to use telekinesis against the machines in Zion (supposedly the real world). Adrian then totally undercuts David’s point, “Lets say it is a simulation, so what? Are you going to break the simulation? Wouldn’t that be suicide?” he points out that wouldn’t it be better to just make “cool shit” and make this simulation better if it is a simulation and that breaking the simulation would surely result in the mass murder of others who don’t realise it’s a simulation. Alex looks absolutely thrilled, David looks slightly nervous. “Look”, says David “is it better to know about reality or to stay in ignorance? What people do with that knowledge is up to them”. This doesn’t really answer anything or help in anyway. What are we supposed to do with that information and why should we give a shit?
Adrian says that all augmenting humans to AI will do is speed up the process we have now and points out to David that perhaps technology could help us see the electromagnetic spectrum not available to human eyes. This would be problematic for Icke, because if that space isn’t chock full of lizards then it would seriously undermine everything he has been saying for decades.
A problem with this, that is not bought up, is what is considered transhumanism or augmentation in the first place? Are glasses augmentation? Are hearing aids augmentation? Is a prosthetic limb transhumanism? At what point does it stop being useful and become scary?
Alex suggests that opposition to Adrian’s view is that of a troglodyte. He doesn’t believe this, he has also ranted against transhumanism for years, but he thinks this man is Elon Musk so he’s perfectly happy to call David a troglodyte in order to suck up to the billionaire who he wants to be friends with.
“Is this Elon Musk?” asks David. “No 100% not” says Adrian. “Ive been told in the break by your staff that it is Elon” says a confused David.“He needs plausible deniability” says Alex, not realising that it really isn’t Elon Musk, “So lets just pretend it’s Elon” he says with a grin like the Cheshire cat.
Adrian says that all AI will do is make the services we have now easier and quicker and it might actually help us evolve. Sure there will be risks and safety concerns but we could talk about them sensibly. But this is doom laden enough for David who says “AI is designed to take over and replace the human mind” Again I thought we were in a simulation, why would this step be necessary?
Alex, who we must remember thinks he is talking to Elon Musk says that he now thinks augmentation is a good thing. David looks panicky and delivers a rather disjointed response.
“Its about where it’s meant to go...Kerswell said this...it goes to the point where your perceptions are delivered to you and they aren’t your perceptions, they are your sense of reality...and this is a very dark and dangerous road and not one that I want to live in.”
But Adrian is not swayed by this. “So its not the tech but who sets reality?” he asks. A gruff David responds, “Our senses are controlled” Adrian stumps Icke by asking the simple question how is this a bad thing? Icke looks stunned.
Adrian continues, “How is it a problem if perception is delivered to us? How is this a bad thing? Surely it’s only bad if our perception is false and benefits someone else?” How we would know any of this is another story.
David looks like he has never thought of this and struggles to mash together a barely coherent response. Now you must remember that this is the crux of David’s recent theories and has lately underpinned much of his work, but it appears that he has never considered these questions.
“Exactly that….augmented reality you can stick that in a dark place from my point of view. But you know Im 72 coming up. That’s my perception but if I am being delivered a perception that gets me to stand up and walk out of this room when I wouldn’t do that if I was sitting here...that is not augmented reality that is a takeover of reality...and if you are a force that wants to control people…”
(then raising his voice)
“...What are we talking about Alex? In terms of the global cult and the non human entities working through it and the WEF and all these people they are seeking to dictate our sense of reality!”
So thats the lizards ultimate plan, to get us to stand up and walk out of the room when we were previously sitting down. Those insidious shapeshifting bastards. So when you go into a room and totally forget why you went there, is that the Lizards doing that?
“So its aliens controlling reality?” asks Alex. “I haven’t seen any evidence of aliens” chips in Adrian. “This is Elon Musk” states a positively giddy Alex.
Bringing facts to a debate with David Icke is like bringing a tank to a knife fight. Icke looks like a man who has just cut into his beef wellington and discovered that it is filled with old hospital waste. “Look is this really Elon Musk? This is playground stuff.” he then goes on to explain that the aliens are interdimensional and then I presume as a dig at Elon, says “Going to Mars is easy”
He then has a dig at Alex, simply not being able to help himself, “Look you have spent years, Ive spent years, decades even researching this. The plan is a dystopia based on AI. They admit it” – They, whoever they are most certainly do not admit to this plan.
Alex cuts David’s microphone but doesn’t tell him and Icke can be seen furiously mouthing something in the bottom corner of the screen but Jones couldn’t care less. He wants to talk to talk to Elon about AI.
“Do you know what the paperclip theory is?” asks Adrian. “Yes I do, but explain it to the audience” lies Alex.
Paperclip theory roughly is, we design a machine to make paperclips and when he runs out of raw material, it destroys the world turning everything into paperclips as it was programmed to. The point is to put safety checks in place to ensure technology doesn’t run wild. Basically Adrian is saying – Ah it’ll probably be fine. This is good enough for Alex.
Alex cuts back to a bewildered and frankly broken looking David and offers to give him the last few minutes they have on air. Icke had the dejected and confused look of a man who genuinely thought he was invisible being handcuffed and led away for lewd behaviour in the shallow end of a municipal swimming pool. I actually felt sorry for him. He has been upstaged in the interview that was already upstaged by Tucker Carlson, which he only got by complaining on twitter that he was being upstaged by everyone else on a regular basis.
“Im exposing an agenda to replace the human mind with AI. It’s the cults agenda. I’ve written about it for years. It’s a takeover of human perception. Previously done through information, in the future through more sinister interfaces…”
Alex cuts David off to go back to Elon. “OK Bye mate, thanks” says the disembodied voice of Icke sounding genuinely hurt.
Adrian is dealing with something at home, food boiling over or something. This allows a previously unheard participant to start ranting about how we all need God and that Elon is going to put a mind control chip in everyone's brain. Alex cuts him off. Usually this would be exactly the sort of thing Jones is worried about but principles are nothing when you have the opportunity to hang with an extremely rich guy.
When confronted with what he thinks is Elon Musk Jones becomes a total sycophantic, fanboy toadie, who is willing to go along with any suggestion, dismiss his “friend” David and abandon the principles he has stated on air for years about the supposed dangers of transhumanism, mind control and the power of the elites to control our lives. David when confronted with what he thinks is Elon Musk find himself acting timidly and unable to provide an adequate explanation of his theory or convincing argument against Musk’s position.
Adrian starts talking bout how in the future humans will be digital and have our personalities uploaded to technology, existing for years as a different form. Alex laps this up and for a brief second the thought flashes across my mind – shit, what if David Icke was right.
Alex goes to thank Adrian who he still thinks is Elon Musk but Adrian has already hung up and is going about his day. There is an awkward silence for about fifteen seconds as Jones hopefully waits for Elon to respond. Met with silence Alex plugs twitter in a further attempt to win favour with the billionaire he definitely wasn’t talking to.
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